cheekbones3 | (no subject)

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So, if the reason behind a public smoking ban is to protect the staff who work in smoky environments, what is special about those people that work in private clubs and places that don't serve food in England? Asbestos lungs perhaps?

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I presume they have less jurisdiction over private clubs?

No, some people in the cabinet just argued (forced?) the cabinet not to try to enact a total ban, which they could easily have done.

The impression I got was this was just a stepping stone to a full ban....

That's the gloss that the Health Secretary is trying to put on it, but a few days ago, she was arguing for a full ban, and appears to have been forced into this compromise.

they can choose to work elsewhere?

Yes. Many people choose to take minimum-wage jobs dealing with drunken idiots because they love them, and not because it's all they can get. Smelling of smoke and increased cancer risk are bonuses that they look for when applying for these jobs.

I personally enjoyed the glass projectiles from the occasional local idiots we got in.

there will be many of these jobs someone can take, they can work in a non-smoking pub/bar if they so wish, as you say the job is shit and minimum wage, so why not move to another pub if you don't like the one you've got?!? bar jobs are very common and when the legislation comes in you could just move to a pub which doesn't allow smoking.

Just because it's minimum wage, it's nice to work in the same pub for a while, unless it's really really bad. What can people do until legislation comes in though?

probably nothing until then i admit.

Someone that's a good bar manager can just be forced to leave a good and comfortable job just because they want to be healthy? What if it's the person that owns the pub? Ah if only it was that easy to walk into good jobs...

i *presume* that as a manager you will be partly responsible for setting the policy, if you want it non-smoking you can do so. and i'm pretty sure that bar jobs are ten-a-penny?

Most pubs are owned by big companies with global policies, so the pub managers have little or no say on issues such as smoking policy. Landlords of free houses and tenancies ahve more freedom, but won't generally make their business non-smoking due to the risk this entails.

And since most if not all pubs are not smoke-free, whether jobs are ten-a-penny is irrelevent surely?

as far as i know the big chains are all very anti-smoking anyway, and your comment of 'if only it was that easy to walk into good jobs' was taken by me to mean it wasn't that easy for people out there looking for bar work, where my experience of looking for bar work is that there are lots of jobs available, so the choice is there if people dont' want to work in the places where smoking isn't going to be allowed. your original post was about that wasn't it? protecting the staff in these places? and so surely my comment was quite relevant?

I wasn't talking about strictly bar jobs with that comment, more partly referring to myself, and bar managers in general.

As for the big chains, I don't know any pubs in Edinburgh that are smoke free, whether the big chains are against smoking or not. I know Wetherspoon's tried it in some pubs in the south of England I think.

wetherspoons and yates are supporting it fully all over england, the north is getting it too.

It looks to me like they're having a selection across the country at Wetherspoon, but not everywhere by any means.

ooh didn't know that one. the one in sunderland has smoking/non smoking areas and has for a while now, what would bother me if i was a non-smoking staff member is cleaning the ashtrays :S

Mmm...ashtrays was always one of the worse jobs...

i realise it's prob nothing to do with health, but these rooms where no staff will be required and people can smoke...

.. who's gonna clean em?!?!

have they made provision for this, but i've just missed it?

Yet another hole in the idea!

*nod*

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